United chairman Andrew Jenkins (AJ) and managing director John Nixon (JN) spoke to BBC Radio Cumbria'sJames Phillips (JP) at today's open press conference for the local media, Nixon explaining the reasons behind the departure of Blues boss Greg Abbott:
JP
Why has the club made this decision now?
JN
Well, we made the decision now as we said in our press release this morning because following the defeat against Port Vale and six games without a win we were looking at the detrimental effect on the business more than anything else. It is not a personality issue, it is an issue of the detrimental effect on the business, gates are going down and will continue to go down and as business people trying to run the club and keep it as a viable operation then we had to look at that first and foremost.
JP
How much did you consider the weight of public opinion making the decision at this stage?
JN
I think the business is the most important thing that we have always said that we are stewards here at the club and we have got to keep this club going and we want to leave something that is better than when we took over. So, we have always said the same thing and we have got to a point where we had to do something really to stop the club spiralling downwards, and that is infact what we all agreed to on Saturday night.
JP
Why did you choose to extend Greg Abbott’s contract in the summer when even at that stage a lot of fans were already calling for you to not renew it. It wouldn’t have been a sacking then or a mutual consent thing, it would just have been not renewing the contract?
AJ
Well, we had answered that prior to that, we had a board meeting and we agreed to give Greg an extension to his contract, we had every confidence to do that. So, we are men or our word and I would never go back on my word if I could help it and so we honoured that agreement. But, at that time we still had every confidence that Greg would turn it round, which he did to some extent last year, and we thought that with a fresh start we would get on our bike again.
JN
I mean the contract extension was agreed, I think just for clarity in 2012 and we agreed in May of 2012 that we would extend the contract in 2013 by a year. Lots of contracts you can extend by one or two years, this was effectively a contract that was due to run out at the end of June 2013, and we decided a year early that we would extend. So, we weren’t going to change that and we made a decision and had given our word.
So, it wasn’t something that was done in the summer and it wasn’t something that was done under the pressure of fans’ opinion, and it wasn’t something that was done in the light of having a poorish season last year. As I said earlier, the season if you look at the last ten games, and I will probably get my numbers perfectly right this time, with the last ten games which is nearly a quarter of the season we got 14 points, that is equivalent to a 64 point season, I think that is equivalent to about 12th or 13th in the league. So, we got the second half indicating that we had turned that corner.
JP
Even then there was a lot of supporter opinion that it was time for a change, was that not important to you at that stage, were the points the only thing and the business side of it that mattered?
JN
Points and the business side are the most important thing because from the points and the business side we have to keep the club going for the supporters. You rightly say that supporters opinion is there but we do get, and you can get, in the region of anywhere between 3,500 and 4,500 different opinions, that is very difficult to all pull together. So, we have to as stewards of the club take it upon ourselves as directors to ensure that we make the right decisions for the club.
JP
Do you feel it was a mistake to extend that contract in hindsight?
JN
No, I think you are asking the same question again and again. We don’t think it was a mistake that the decision was taken in May of 2012 and at that point in time I think we finished about eighth in the league and we had every confidence going forward into last season that we were going to build on that and push on for promotion. The fact that there were some issues last year, the back half of the season was significantly better than the first half, and so there was absolutely no thought at all that we had made the wrong decision.
JP
Andrew, could you clarify if Greg Abbott was sacked or whether he resigned, what are the exact terms of that?
AJ
Well, I think as John has said, we met with Greg after the match on Saturday and talked over the situation, we expressed the fact that it is effecting the business side of the club and we just came to the opinion that it was better for all concerned if we all just parted our ways, and that is what happened. We have a good relationship with our managers, I have had an ex-manager on the phone this afternoon, I can speak to nearly every manager that I have had to dismiss at this club or fall out with or leave the club and we have got a good reputation.
We want to maintain that with Greg and we have done, and if he wants a reference we will gladly give him it. He worked hard for this club and all he did for the club over the years, Wembley twice, and the promotions, we got nearly into the play-offs and things. So, it was an opinion by all of us wasn’t it really that it was the best thing to do.
JP
Would it be called mutual consent then? The reason I am asking is that a lot of fans want to know if the club have had to pay compensation with the way that the two parties have parted company?
JN
No, Greg was under contract to us and there were certain items in that contract that mean that we will need to honour them. The terminology that you are trying to allude to is not something that I would allude to on the air. We discussed the situation with Greg and it was felt that the best thing at this point in time was for both parties to go in different directions. His contract will be honoured and honoured in full.
JP
With that then, there are fans who wanted you to let Greg go in the summer who would want to know if it has cost the club more in your decision to ignore them at that stage. Has it cost you the terms of the contract for the full season?
JN
Well, in terms of costs again you are alluding to the same thing. It was agreed in May 2012 to extend the contract, having agreed to extend that contract it would have cost the same in the summer as it costs now and it would have cost the same had we done it in October, November, December and January of this coming year.
So, there is no difference whatsoever in the cost, it would have cost exactly the same. The terms of his contract are very explicit and are very real and I understand them and he understands them, because I wrote the contract two or three years ago, so the cost is not any different.
JP
What is the plan now, what is the timescale for looking to appoint a replacement/
JN
Well, of course, I think we put a press release out at about 10.20 this morning and by 10.30 the first applicants were coming in and they have been rolling in all day. We have an existing group of senior coaches who are keeping the balls in the air for this game coming on Saturday and they will all be doing the job that they have been doing and they are supporting each other, which is fantastic.
We would really like to get to a position, really like to get to a position, I don’t know if it is feasible, that we can be naming an appointment before the Stevenage game, which is two weeks time. But, that might be on timescales which are just too tight, but that is where we would really like to be.
JP
Is there an opinion regarding continuity, whether you would like to appoint someone from within or would you maybe, as some fans have called for, like to a look at a completely fresh approach to the way things are done with the manager at Carlisle?
AJ
Well, it depends, if it is going to take three weeks or four weeks we would like to try to get the right person and we would wait for that person. If somebody within wants to apply then we will look at it and see but there is nothing either way. We haven’t been lining anybody up, we were certainly thinking he would turn it round so we have nobody there. So, it is a question of looking at the names, try to get as much information out of them, make a shortlist and then interview them.
JN
Yeah, there are no pre-conceived ideas of who and if the three senior coaches, and I said that to them this morning, if you wish to apply for it then put your names on the application form, if you don’t want to and you are quite happy to just keep the balls in the air and keep us going to the Sheffield United match then that is fine as well. We will wait and see who turns out on that list, you can’t persuade people to put their names on the list, it is up to them.
JP
With that coaching set-up that is already in place, they are all of course under their new contracts as well, would you expect a new manager to work with them or would that manager be given the opportunity to bring in their own staff if that is what they wanted to do?
JN
Well, it depends on which manager we choose at the end of the day, who it is, when it is and what demands they have, they are not just demands coming from the football club, they are demands coming from someone who may wish to be employed. So, it is a pretty good open question but it is one where this is no change as I can’t really answer.
JP
You know that we have to ask certain questions at these times but of course it must have been a very difficult time for everyone involved at the club to do this and to tell a manager you are going to have to make a change, he has worked with you for a very long time?
JN
It is not something that you look forward to but it is something that we sat down, and all three of us sat together on Saturday night and we knew when we were talking what we were talking about. There was no animosity, there was no tearing out of hair or anything, there was a question of sitting down, three people who have got a great deal of mutual respect for each other, discussing the situation, discussing the club, discussing the way forward and agreeing what was best for Carlisle United, and that is what we did.
JP
Do you have anything to add on that Andrew?
AJ
Well, just that whilst you hoped it wouldn’t happen, you always think that when you start any manager of anything like this, you think there might be a chance that this is going to happen. So, you try to prepare yourself and it isn’t nice but you have got to do it haven’t you or you might as well not be in the job.
JP
Is it important at a time like this to remember the good that Greg Abbott brought in his years at Carlisle United as well as how things have ended?
AJ
Well, very much so yeah, I have every respect for Greg. On Friday the number of players he was trying to get in with the contacts that Greg has, not everybody has that, so he has done really a better job than a lot of people think here and he has our respect.
JP
And I know that he leaves with your blessings and thanks for the job he has done John?
JN
Yeah, he does and we will recommend him. I actually think that he is a good coach, he has learnt a heck of a lot in the seven years he has been here, he has learned an awful about budgetary control, he has learnt an awful lot about the management of people and the management of a business. He will take that forward with him and I absolutely believe that he will go to a bigger job, probably the top end of League One or into the Championship and he will kick on because he is a good coach. So, it may be that it is an opportunity for him as well, so we do think he is a good guy.
JP
Has the whole experience of this and the way it has ended, has it made you question your own roles at Carlisle United, whether you want this sort of flak that you guys come in for in the position that you have?
JN
I think we do the job because we care about Carlisle United and we wouldn’t be sitting here if we didn’t. They are not easy jobs, there are times when we have got to make difficult decisions, there are times even when Greg was here that we had to make difficult decisions. We have long and hard debates but we do it because we believe in the club and we believe that what we want to leave is something better than we took over.
We want to do that in all shapes and forms, whether it is being in the form of the stadium, the form of the playing side and it is definitely that we want to get them into the next level and beyond. So, that is why we do it and we do it because we want to do it, if we didn’t want to do it we could walk away tomorrow, I could and Andrew could but we won’t do that until somebody comes in that says I can do this a lot better than you, I have got far more resources than you and I have got much more expertise than you.
But, as it stands at present it is our club, it is local, we are local people and we are very, very committed to it and we always do what is right for Carlisle United and for the fans as well. We take a bit of flak but you know, sometimes you get a bit of glory as well and we enjoy that when we win, so it is good.
JP
You have talked about being stewards and custodians you have referred to yourselves as in the past, when you talk about that if somebody wants to come in with more money and take over, do the club need to do more at this stage given where the finances are to try to actively seek that sort of either investment into the club or even somebody to come over and help the custodians on their way?
AJ
We are doing that all the time really, we have had people in even in the last six months and we have talked it over with them but there are stumbling blocks. It is isn’t just that easy getting people to come in, but we would welcome people to come in with some financial support. The more money we can bring into the club the better the team will go hopefully.
JP
But, you said before that you would welcome it, do you think you need to do more to garner it?
AJ
We do an awful lot, you would be surprised at what we do to try and find it. We have had people just this season haven’t we that we have been talking to, but whether they will in the end I am not quite sure. But, some people are also looking to take a club into the Premier League, which when they look at Carlisle they probably say well it isn’t on really, we will go to Sheffield United probably or somewhere like that. So, it isn’t just as easy as that.
JN
I think the big thing is, I mean this is a long debate, we will do it on Radio Cumbria one night, but we have got to make sure that the people coming in will take the club forward and will take the club forward and maintain Carlisle United. That they are not coming in to strip out what is already here, they are not coming in to make a quick buck and move on and sell on to some bigwig who might have more money and they are not going to waste the club.
We have had that in the past and we won’t mention any names, we have gone in a certain direction and the club has gone wrong, we have gone into administration. We had it locally with Gretna, we had a club that went in a certain direction, supposedly with big money people, and it is now out of business.
So, part of the job that we do as directors is to ensure that that doesn’t happen to Carlisle United. So, every Tom, Dick and Harry that knocks on the door saying that they want to do something with this club, you have got to vet them and make sure that that doesn’t happen, and that is all we do. So, it is easy to try to get hold of a club, it is much more difficult to be dedicated to it and to ensure that this club can go forward.
JP
There have been a number of fans who said that they wouldn’t come back until there was that change of manager, is the hope now of the club and of you and the board that that will change and they will now come back these fans who said they were staying away for that reason?
AJ
Well, we hope that they do but it is up to them, we would like to see them rally round the club and give us some support. Because, I think I said something recently, the Football League controls our finances and finances are all controlled through the number of people you get through the gate. John has to prepare budgets every year and we have to put a figure in for the attendances and if we put in 10,000 as our average gate then the Football League would throw it back and say that this is no good to us, we are going to knock you down to 3,500 or 4,000.
Then you are limited to 60% of your income on your budget on your playing side. So, it isn’t just as easy as you think, you can put money in if somebody is going to donate it but it just isn’t as easy as that, so we are governed by the new regulations which are there stop teams getting into administration.
JP
Will it be nice in a way to be talking about these games, not a game for Greg Abbott to save his career and finally for people, the fans, the club to be able to talk about them as Carlisle United needing the points rather than Greg Abbott needing the points?
JN
Well, it is never about an individual, it was never about a person, you have got to remember that we sat down……..
JP
I think it was for the fans though.
JN
Well, it probably was for the fans but to be fair the local press have helped to beef up that. They needed a story, you all needed a story James, Radio Cumbria needed a story, particularly the News and Star needed a story and they have beefed that up and they have done a good job.
But, at the end of the day that is now what it was about, it was about six games and six games at this point in time is 40 games to go, and 40 games to game under any new administration gives this club a reasonable and a very good chance that we will be talking about out of trouble and moving forward rather than leaving it too late in the season. I think that has been important and I think that from a business point of view probably why we moved fairly early in the season.
JP
So, you think the local media were doing more than reflecting what public opinion was then John?
JN
Well, to be fair, I have got to be absolutely honest with you, I don’t actually listen to Radio Cumbria and I don’t buy the Evening News and Star.
JP
So, how do you know that the local media have beefed it up?
JN
Well, I am only going from what I have been told about them, but I don’t actually read them because I would get upset about it I think.
AJ
I could get you lots of people who have every support behind Greg Abbott, and people who are wanting to put money in. So, there are other people that don’t ring up, not everybody likes ringing up Radio Cumbria or writing to the News and Star, so there are other people out there, I have been talking to people this afternoon who have said they are really sorry because they thought a lot of Greg. When we thought about season tickets we would get thousands of people writing in and in the end I think we only had about six letters or something like that.
JN
We get a lot of fans feedback, we have a fans feedback group, we have a fans liaison officer as most Football League teams do as well and we get e-mails that come through on a fairly regular basis. On Saturdays we would tend to be out and about and finally we are local people so we do get out and about. When I have a drink on a Thursday night it happens to be in a local pub, so there is a strong opinion that comes through.
We listen to that and that is probably where we take our lead from, from what people tell us to our face because that is probably the best way because they are the ones that are genuine fans, genuine supporters who really have the club at heart, so you have got to listen to them. I am always busy when you are broadcasting and never hear anything, but I do come once a year and do an interview with you.
AJ
And with the feedback group, the last two meetings we have had, they are all genuine, most of them are season ticket holders and do you know something, there wasn’t one question asked about the manager. All they were asking was about how they could help the club bring more money in. There is about 20 of them isn’t there and they are all good supporters, there wasn’t one, the only question was how do you get on with the manager. There wasn’t a criticism or anything, it was all what they could do to help the club move forward.
JP
But, there were plenty of fans after the Coventry game in particular who………….
AJ
I am talking about the feedback group that we had. We have a feedback group of about, how many is it Andy [Hall]?
AH
There are 50 registered.
AJ
We meet with them two or three times a year and they bring forward suggestions that we can do to make the club better, and none of them came back and said they were unhappy with the manager.